On this episode of In Conversation, I speak with Stephen Markley – an American journalist, screenwriter and author whose gripping novels explore the tangled political, economic and environmental issues we face across the world today.

Born and raised in Mount Vernon, Ohio, Stephen’s Midwestern roots permeate his writing, and his debut novel, Ohio, garnered critical acclaim for its vivid portrayal of a Rust Belt town and its residents grappling with the aftermath of the Iraq War, economic decline, and personal trauma.

In 2023, he published The Deluge, an ambitious behemoth of a novel set in the near future, which tackles the urgent issue of climate change and its manifold impacts on society. Described by Stephen King as “prophetic, terrifying, uplifting”, it was named by The New York Times as one of the 100 Notable Books of 2023, and reviewed as “realistic and nuanced, grim but playful.”

Having been interviewed on Late Night with Seth Myers and at book launches by Chris Pine, Robbie Orvis and Dan Fogelman, Stephen has become one of the leading literary figures in the US and beyond to give voice to the complicated, distressing and at times redemptive forces at play in the scientific, climatic and geopolitical realms.

This was a provocative, thoughtful and surprising conversation for me, and I hope you find it both sobering and uplifting.

SUMMARY

The conversation explores the global human psyche in the face of the climate crisis and the role of literature in inspiring action. It dives into the importance of finding joy and hope amidst the challenges, the power of community and face-to-face interactions, and the dangers of social media and surveillance capitalism. We also touch on the potential of technology, the need for a balance between hope and fear, and the role of culture in shaping our perspectives. We talk about Stephen’s most recent book, 'The Deluge,' and how it address the ways in which we might navigate the current crisis and create a more just and prosperous future. As both of us are authors (albeit of different genres), we talk about the psychological toll of writing about challenging topics, the importance of finding joy and balance in life, and the power of creativity. We also explore the need for humility and open-mindedness in conversations, the value of boredom and imagination, and the impact of the attention economy on our mental well-being.

KEY THEMES

• Finding joy and hope is crucial in the face of the climate crisis.

• Community and face-to-face interactions play a vital role in addressing the challenges.

• Social media and surveillance capitalism have negatively impacted our sense of community and purpose.

• Technology, such as AI, can be both beneficial and authoritarian, requiring careful consideration.

• Literature and culture have the power to emotionally engage and inspire action.

• Balancing hope and fear is essential in motivating people to address the climate crisis. Writing about challenging topics can take a psychological toll, and it's important to find joy and balance in life.

• Creativity is a powerful tool for self-expression and personal growth, regardless of whether it becomes a career.

• The attention economy and constant connectivity can negatively impact our mental well-being, and it's important to create boundaries and cultivate boredom and imagination.

• Humility and open-mindedness are essential in conversations, as they allow for growth and understanding.

• Diverse perspectives and questioning assumptions are vital for personal and societal growth.

• Finding hope and reflecting on the long view...

Today I’m in conversation with Rachel Donald, an investigative journalist and activist dedicated to uncovering the root causes of global crises and advocating for change.

With a background in managing international teams and teaching media and journalism at French universities, Rachel’s work focuses on what she terms "climate corruption"—the exploitation of natural resources at the expense of the environment and marginalised communities.

Driven by a passion for climate advocacy, combating corruption, and storytelling, Rachel is perhaps best-known for her compelling podcast ‘Planet Critical’, a powerful series that explores pressing issues surrounding global energy, economics, and ecology.

Her work and writing have featured in major publications, often serving to illuminate the gaslighting tactics that sustain exploitative systems, and her articles serve to connect the dots into a broader, more complex and complete narrative.

A sought-after speaker at conferences, Rachel is currently authoring her debut book on the theme of violence, drawing from her extensive experience in print, online, and radio journalism.

This episode has been a while in the making, but I’m really delighted to be able to share this conversation with you today. And if you’d like to find out more about Rachel’s work, check out her podcast and writing, the links for which are in the shownotes below.

SUMMARY

In this episode of In Conversation, we explore the concept of flourishing and the risks and opportunities facing us in the world today. From eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI, to decreasing crop yields and mass migration, we discuss the need for adaptation and resilience in the face of a rapidly changing world.

We also shed light on the green shoots of change, including the use of social media for radical information sharing ,the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices, and the need for social friction and curiosity in order to create connections and foster hope.

Rachel raises some thoughtful, provocative challenges to the ways in which we love one another under patriarchy, and unpacks the lack of language and understanding around love. We also explore the importance of understanding where traditions and societal norms come from and how we might better understand and align our actions with the values we hold dear.

KEY THEMES

• The global human psyche is experiencing a recognition of pain and empathy, leading to a desire for change and a sense of global scream.

• Flourishing involves a willingness to embrace decay and death as part of a cycle, and to accept the otherness that comes with it.

• The risks in the world include eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI.

• Adaptation and resilience are necessary in the face of challenges such as decreasing crop yields and mass migration.

• Shoots of hope can be found in the use of social media for radical information sharing and the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices. Building relationships and engaging in meaningful conversations are essential for creating connections and fostering hope.

• Social friction and curiosity are important for generating newness, creativity, and love.

• Loving one another under patriarchy is challenging due to power dynamics and the lack of understanding and language around love.

• Understanding the origins of traditions and aligning actions with values can lead to more fulfilling relationships.

• On dark days, finding beauty and resilience in laughter, feeling deeply, and holding the bigger picture can provide strength and hope.

WEBSITES

Today I speak with Dr Matthew Zylstra, a systems ecologist passionate about deepening the human-nature relationship for the flourishing of people and planet.

With an MSc in Environmental Science (2005) and PhD in Conservation Ecology & Sustainability Education (2014), his doctorate research explored how meaningful nature experiences and nature connectedness motivate pro-environmental behaviour and regenerative leadership.

Drawing upon his 20 years of international experience in social-ecological research and outdoor education, Matthew’s publications have informed global initiatives and university curricula.

Currently the Programme Director with the Kwendalo Institute, Matthew is also Scientific Advisor to NatureFix, and is a Research Fellow with the Centre for Sustainability Transitions at Stellenbosch University. For more on Matthew’s past research and current endeavours, you can check out earthcollective.net

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we touch on nature connection, the power of mystical experience and how this can bring a deeper meaning to our lives. We explore the idea that humanity is facing a reckoning with its relationship with one another and the Earth, and discuss the fragmentation and desensitization of the human psyche, particularly in relation to technology and the attention economy.

Matt talks about the NatureFix app, which aims to make nature connection more accessible and encourages engagement with the natural world, and we touch on the importance of feeling safe and comfortable in nature and the potential for awe and wonder in wild spaces.

We discuss the idea that our mode of consciousness is not universal, that our perception of the world is shaped by our cultural and individual backgrounds, and the role of ceremony and mindfulness in deepening our connection with nature and the potential for a post-economic paradigm that values localisation, autonomy, and our relationship with nature.

KEY THEMES

• Humanity is facing a reckoning with its relationship with one another and the Earth.

• The human psyche is fragmented, distracted, and desensitized, particularly in relation to technology and the attention economy.

• The NatureFix app aims to make nature connection more accessible and encourages engagement with the natural world.

• Feeling safe and comfortable in nature is important for deepening our connection with the natural world.

• Wild spaces offer the potential for awe and wonder, but also require a sense of openness and willingness to embrace the unknown. Our mode of consciousness is not universal and our perception of the world is shaped by our cultural and individual backgrounds.

• Ceremony and mindfulness can deepen our connection with nature and bring a sense of reverence and meaning to our experiences.

• A post-economic paradigm could involve localization, autonomy, and a shift in values to prioritize our relationship with nature.

• Taking time to sit in nature and observe can help us reconnect with the joy and beauty that is always present.

• Our actions, even if seemingly insignificant, can contribute to a shift in consciousness and the preservation of our connection with nature.

WEBSITES

https://bio.site/drmattz

https://www.naturefix.life/

https://earthcollective.net/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

Journey to Ixtlan: The Lessons of Don Juan - Carlos Castaneda...