On this episode of In Conversation, I speak with Stephen Markley – an American journalist, screenwriter and author whose gripping novels explore the tangled political, economic and environmental issues we face across the world today.

Born and raised in Mount Vernon, Ohio, Stephen’s Midwestern roots permeate his writing, and his debut novel, Ohio, garnered critical acclaim for its vivid portrayal of a Rust Belt town and its residents grappling with the aftermath of the Iraq War, economic decline, and personal trauma.

In 2023, he published The Deluge, an ambitious behemoth of a novel set in the near future, which tackles the urgent issue of climate change and its manifold impacts on society. Described by Stephen King as “prophetic, terrifying, uplifting”, it was named by The New York Times as one of the 100 Notable Books of 2023, and reviewed as “realistic and nuanced, grim but playful.”

Having been interviewed on Late Night with Seth Myers and at book launches by Chris Pine, Robbie Orvis and Dan Fogelman, Stephen has become one of the leading literary figures in the US and beyond to give voice to the complicated, distressing and at times redemptive forces at play in the scientific, climatic and geopolitical realms.

This was a provocative, thoughtful and surprising conversation for me, and I hope you find it both sobering and uplifting.

SUMMARY

The conversation explores the global human psyche in the face of the climate crisis and the role of literature in inspiring action. It dives into the importance of finding joy and hope amidst the challenges, the power of community and face-to-face interactions, and the dangers of social media and surveillance capitalism. We also touch on the potential of technology, the need for a balance between hope and fear, and the role of culture in shaping our perspectives. We talk about Stephen’s most recent book, 'The Deluge,' and how it address the ways in which we might navigate the current crisis and create a more just and prosperous future. As both of us are authors (albeit of different genres), we talk about the psychological toll of writing about challenging topics, the importance of finding joy and balance in life, and the power of creativity. We also explore the need for humility and open-mindedness in conversations, the value of boredom and imagination, and the impact of the attention economy on our mental well-being.

KEY THEMES

• Finding joy and hope is crucial in the face of the climate crisis.

• Community and face-to-face interactions play a vital role in addressing the challenges.

• Social media and surveillance capitalism have negatively impacted our sense of community and purpose.

• Technology, such as AI, can be both beneficial and authoritarian, requiring careful consideration.

• Literature and culture have the power to emotionally engage and inspire action.

• Balancing hope and fear is essential in motivating people to address the climate crisis. Writing about challenging topics can take a psychological toll, and it's important to find joy and balance in life.

• Creativity is a powerful tool for self-expression and personal growth, regardless of whether it becomes a career.

• The attention economy and constant connectivity can negatively impact our mental well-being, and it's important to create boundaries and cultivate boredom and imagination.

• Humility and open-mindedness are essential in conversations, as they allow for growth and understanding.

• Diverse perspectives and questioning assumptions are vital for personal and societal growth.

• Finding hope and reflecting on the long view...

Today I’m in conversation with Rachel Donald, an investigative journalist and activist dedicated to uncovering the root causes of global crises and advocating for change.

With a background in managing international teams and teaching media and journalism at French universities, Rachel’s work focuses on what she terms "climate corruption"—the exploitation of natural resources at the expense of the environment and marginalised communities.

Driven by a passion for climate advocacy, combating corruption, and storytelling, Rachel is perhaps best-known for her compelling podcast ‘Planet Critical’, a powerful series that explores pressing issues surrounding global energy, economics, and ecology.

Her work and writing have featured in major publications, often serving to illuminate the gaslighting tactics that sustain exploitative systems, and her articles serve to connect the dots into a broader, more complex and complete narrative.

A sought-after speaker at conferences, Rachel is currently authoring her debut book on the theme of violence, drawing from her extensive experience in print, online, and radio journalism.

This episode has been a while in the making, but I’m really delighted to be able to share this conversation with you today. And if you’d like to find out more about Rachel’s work, check out her podcast and writing, the links for which are in the shownotes below.

SUMMARY

In this episode of In Conversation, we explore the concept of flourishing and the risks and opportunities facing us in the world today. From eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI, to decreasing crop yields and mass migration, we discuss the need for adaptation and resilience in the face of a rapidly changing world.

We also shed light on the green shoots of change, including the use of social media for radical information sharing ,the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices, and the need for social friction and curiosity in order to create connections and foster hope.

Rachel raises some thoughtful, provocative challenges to the ways in which we love one another under patriarchy, and unpacks the lack of language and understanding around love. We also explore the importance of understanding where traditions and societal norms come from and how we might better understand and align our actions with the values we hold dear.

KEY THEMES

• The global human psyche is experiencing a recognition of pain and empathy, leading to a desire for change and a sense of global scream.

• Flourishing involves a willingness to embrace decay and death as part of a cycle, and to accept the otherness that comes with it.

• The risks in the world include eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI.

• Adaptation and resilience are necessary in the face of challenges such as decreasing crop yields and mass migration.

• Shoots of hope can be found in the use of social media for radical information sharing and the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices. Building relationships and engaging in meaningful conversations are essential for creating connections and fostering hope.

• Social friction and curiosity are important for generating newness, creativity, and love.

• Loving one another under patriarchy is challenging due to power dynamics and the lack of understanding and language around love.

• Understanding the origins of traditions and aligning actions with values can lead to more fulfilling relationships.

• On dark days, finding beauty and resilience in laughter, feeling deeply, and holding the bigger picture can provide strength and hope.

WEBSITES

Today I speak with Dr Matthew Zylstra, a systems ecologist passionate about deepening the human-nature relationship for the flourishing of people and planet.

With an MSc in Environmental Science (2005) and PhD in Conservation Ecology & Sustainability Education (2014), his doctorate research explored how meaningful nature experiences and nature connectedness motivate pro-environmental behaviour and regenerative leadership.

Drawing upon his 20 years of international experience in social-ecological research and outdoor education, Matthew’s publications have informed global initiatives and university curricula.

Currently the Programme Director with the Kwendalo Institute, Matthew is also Scientific Advisor to NatureFix, and is a Research Fellow with the Centre for Sustainability Transitions at Stellenbosch University. For more on Matthew’s past research and current endeavours, you can check out earthcollective.net

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we touch on nature connection, the power of mystical experience and how this can bring a deeper meaning to our lives. We explore the idea that humanity is facing a reckoning with its relationship with one another and the Earth, and discuss the fragmentation and desensitization of the human psyche, particularly in relation to technology and the attention economy.

Matt talks about the NatureFix app, which aims to make nature connection more accessible and encourages engagement with the natural world, and we touch on the importance of feeling safe and comfortable in nature and the potential for awe and wonder in wild spaces.

We discuss the idea that our mode of consciousness is not universal, that our perception of the world is shaped by our cultural and individual backgrounds, and the role of ceremony and mindfulness in deepening our connection with nature and the potential for a post-economic paradigm that values localisation, autonomy, and our relationship with nature.

KEY THEMES

• Humanity is facing a reckoning with its relationship with one another and the Earth.

• The human psyche is fragmented, distracted, and desensitized, particularly in relation to technology and the attention economy.

• The NatureFix app aims to make nature connection more accessible and encourages engagement with the natural world.

• Feeling safe and comfortable in nature is important for deepening our connection with the natural world.

• Wild spaces offer the potential for awe and wonder, but also require a sense of openness and willingness to embrace the unknown. Our mode of consciousness is not universal and our perception of the world is shaped by our cultural and individual backgrounds.

• Ceremony and mindfulness can deepen our connection with nature and bring a sense of reverence and meaning to our experiences.

• A post-economic paradigm could involve localization, autonomy, and a shift in values to prioritize our relationship with nature.

• Taking time to sit in nature and observe can help us reconnect with the joy and beauty that is always present.

• Our actions, even if seemingly insignificant, can contribute to a shift in consciousness and the preservation of our connection with nature.

WEBSITES

https://bio.site/drmattz

https://www.naturefix.life/

https://earthcollective.net/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

Journey to Ixtlan: The Lessons of Don Juan - Carlos Castaneda...

Today I have the real pleasure of speaking with a cherished friend and inspiration, Manda Scott. She’s a best-selling author, teacher and host of the fantastic podcast, Accidental Gods, and has written about historical fiction, shamanic practice and emerging, thrutopian futures.

A beloved author, perhaps best known for her Boudica: Dreaming series, Manda’s also a smallholder and formerly worked as a veterinary surgeon. Her novels have been shortlisted for the Orange Prize, the Edgar and the Saltire Award, and she has won the McIlvanney Prize.

If you’ve been following her work, you’ll know that she has very recently released an extraordinary new book: Any Human Power, a shimmering clarion call that dreams into being a new mythology of interpersonal power, eco-societal agency and democratic governance.

I was lucky enough to get my hands on an advanced copy, and I couldn’t put it down. And so, especially in the light of the recent UK elections, I wanted to interview her about her vision for a new, life-affirming way of interbeing that enables us to move into more regenerative, participatory and agentic systems of governance, relating and nature-connection.

If you’re not yet familiar with Manda’s work, do listen to some of the Solstice specials we’ve recorded over the years along with Della Duncan, they’re beautiful episodes that give you a more intimate look into the ways of dreaming, thinking and being that Manda offers.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, I speak with the brilliant Manda Scott about her compelling new book - Any Human Power - and the many ways in which we can harness our social, imaginal and political agency to create pathways towards a more flourishing future for all.

From the concept of initiation culture and trauma culture, to the importance of grounding and centering practices, we discuss the challenges of navigating our modern contexts how we might cultivate healthier, more connected states of being. We touch on the concept of interbecoming and the value systems that may lead to emergence, along with the importance of gratitude, compassion, and joyful curiosity.

We also discuss the concept of death as a rite of passage and the need to reimagine our relationship with mortality, and dive into the power of intention and the creation of rituals and relationships that foster resilience and agency.

KEY THEMES

• How to harness our social, imaginal and political agency to create pathways towards a more flourishing future for all
• How to identify and overcome Wetiko, the sickness of exploitation
• Initiation culture and trauma culture
• The importance of grounding and centering practices
• Inter-becoming and value systems that lead to emergence
• Gratitude, compassion, and joyful curiosity
• Connectedness and trust in the web of life
• Death as a rite of passage and reimagining our relationship with mortality
• The power of intention and the creation of rituals

WEBSITES

• https://mandascott.co.uk/
• https://accidentalgods.life/
• https://thrutopia.life/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

• Any Human Power - Manda Scott (https://linktr.ee/anyhumanpower)
• The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession - Robert Falconer (https://amzn.to/3YLStK2)
• Of Water and the Spirit: Ritual, Magic, and Initiation in the Life of an African...

In today’s conversation, I have the privilege of interviewing Daniel Christian Wahl - a distinguished biologist, holistic scientist, and expert in regenerative design. Daniel consults, educates, and advocates globally, working with prominent organisations like Ecover, Lush, and the UK Foresight.

With a background as the former director of Findhorn College and affiliations with esteemed groups like the International Futures Forum and H3Uni, Daniel has been instrumental in shaping discussions on regenerative cultures. His contributions have earned him prestigious honors, including the Bicentenary Medal from the Royal Society for Arts, Manufacture, and Commerce, as well as a Volans Fellowship.

Daniel co-authored Gaia Education's Design for Sustainability curriculum and penned the acclaimed book 'Designing Regenerative Cultures'. He also co-hosts the popular podcast 'Regeneration Rising' and manages a thriving blog on Medium.

Since relocating in 2010, Daniel has resided in Mallorca, cultivating a Mediterranean regenerative food forest since 2022, which serves as a pioneering model for regenerative agroforestry on the island.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we discuss the concept of regenerative cultures and the need for a shift in our worldview, and explore the importance of understanding ourselves as part of nature and living in a kin-centric way.

Daniel challenges the harmful ideologies of the growth imperative in our economic system and the separation of humans from the rest of the natural world, and discusses the need for experiential approaches to help people connect with nature and the challenges of making radical changes in a capitalistic society.

We also touch on the Three Horizons framework (representing the status quo, the turbulent transition, and the regenerative future), and discuss its applications for innovation, culture change and in creating a regenerative future.

KEY THEMES

• We need to shift our worldview to see ourselves as part of nature and live in a kin-centric way.
• The growth imperative in our economic system is a dangerous ideology that needs to be challenged.
• Experiential approaches can help people connect with nature and shift their perspective.
• Making radical changes in a capitalistic society is challenging, but necessary for regenerative cultures.
• The Three Horizons framework is a useful tool for innovation and culture change. The Three Horizons framework provides a useful tool for navigating the transition from the status quo to a regenerative future.
• Different perspectives, such as the corporate manager, the visionary, and the entrepreneur, play important roles in driving change.
• Asking critical questions and suspending judgment are key to effectively using the Three Horizons framework.
• Building relationships, deepening community connections, and finding one's place are essential in times of change and uncertainty.

WEBSITES

• https://www.danielchristianwahl.com/
• https://designforsustainability.medium.com/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

• Designing Regenerative Cultures - Daniel Wahl (https://amzn.to/3UjfCBc)
• The Regenerative Revolution (https://bit.ly/3xQ0275)
• Presence Human Purpose and the Field of the Future - Senge, Peter M, Scharmer, C Otto, Jaworski, Joseph, Flowers, Betty Sue (https://amzn.to/3Wm1yX9)
• Design for Human and Planetary Health - A Holistic/Integral Approach to Complexity and Sustainability - (PDF) Daniel Christian Wahl, PhD (https://bit.ly/3SlQYyi)

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Podcasting

02:34 The Global Human...

For the first episode in Season 13, I’m interviewing Dr Tom Chatfield on his latest book “Wise Animals: How technology has made us what we are" - a poignant, thought-provoking book that explores our shared evolution with the tools and technologies that have come to shape both us, and the world in which we live today.

Rather than seeing technology as a threat, Tom proposes a deeply humanist perspective, one that offers a rich alternative to the more polarising opinions shaping public discourse around our fears and fascinations with AI. His thesis, that we are neither masters nor victims of our technologies, opens up a space to explore themes of agency, imagination, values and belonging, and touches upon some of the delusions we must shed if we are to chart a more flourishing path forward in collaboration with the technologies around us.

If you haven’t come across his work, Dr. Tom Chatfield is a distinguished author and tech philosopher dedicated to enhancing our relationship with technology.

With over thirty translated editions, Tom's non-fiction works like "How To Thrive in the Digital Age" and "Live This Book!" offer profound insights into digital culture, and he has developed bestselling critical thinking textbooks and online courses in collaboration with SAGE Publishing. Beyond his literary contributions, Tom serves as a seasoned Chair, Non-Executive Director, advisor, and speaker across both private and public sectors.

He’s also contributed to shaping future skills and technology through his involvement in designing and presenting the Economist's groundbreaking business course, "Critical Thinking: Problem-solving and decision-making in a complex world."

In addition to his non-fiction endeavors, Tom's debut novel, "This is Gomorrah," garnered critical acclaim, earning recognition as the Sunday Times thriller of the month and receiving prestigious literary awards such as the CWA Steel Dagger and France's Prix Douglas Kennedy. His diverse writing spans topics ranging from AI ethics to the philosophy of fake news, and reflects his multidisciplinary approach and commitment to fostering informed discourse on emerging technologies and societal issues.

KEY THEMES

• The delusions of inevitability and neutrality surrounding technology need to be resisted, and human agency should be emphasized.
• Technology is not inherently good or bad; its impact depends on how it is used and the values embedded within it.
• A more life-affirming future can be achieved through a focus on resilience, sustainability, and compassionate systems.
• The stories we tell and the values we embrace shape our relationship with technology and the world.
• Unintended consequences and unintended escalation can arise from technological advancements, and it is important to consider the broader implications and potential risks. Manipulation of attention is about someone else trying to define the terms of your relationship with the world.
• Understanding different perspectives is crucial in addressing the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation.
• The key to meaningful participation in something larger than ourselves is to find ways to make the riches of the past and present available and to pursue a purpose that belongs to us.
• Hope and beauty can be found in the simple acts of caring for others and engaging in activities that bring joy and fulfilment.
• Stories have the power to change the course of our lives and shape our understanding of the world.

WEBSITES

• https://tomchatfield.net/

OTHER RESOURCES

• Wise Animals - Tom Chatfield

For the last episode of the series, I speak with V (formerly known as Eve Ensler) - distinguished American playwright, performer and feminist, whose work and activism has positively impacted the lives of millions of women and people around the world.

Renowned for her infamous play, The Vagina Monologues, a global phenomenon that has been published in 48 languages and performed in over 140 countries, V is also the author of The Apology, the New York Times bestseller I Am an Emotional Creature, the highly praised In the Body of the World, and her most recent book, Reckoning, which was just recently published.

In 1998, V launched V-day, a global activist movement to end violence against women and girls, which has successfully raised over $100 million for local anti-violence groups and supported more than 13,000 community-based programs. Having founded One Billion Rising, the largest global mass action to end gender-based violence in over 200 countries, V is also the co-founder of the City of Joy, a revolutionary centre for women survivors of violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, alongside Christine Schuler Deschryver and 2018 Nobel Peace Prize winner Dr. Denis Mukwege.

V’s groundbreaking work has earned her many accolades including the Isabelle Stevenson Award at the 2011 Tony Awards, and she has been named among Newsweek’s ‘150 Women Who Changed the World,’ and the Guardian’s ‘100 Most Influential Women’.

Through her work and activism, V continues to shape the dialogue around social justice, women's rights, and our relationship with and as part of nature, and her creativity and fierce commitment to improving the lives of women worldwide continues to impact and inspire new generations of activists and artists.

KEY THEMES

• V highlights the collective grief, trauma, and sorrow felt worldwide due to recent events, including the impact of violence and conflict on children and civilians.
• We delve into the origins of violence, focusing on systemic issues like occupation, racism, and colonialism. V emphasises the importance of understanding and addressing the root causes of violence to create a more peaceful world.
• Personal and political reckoning, the process of introspection and societal reflection prompted by the pandemic and recent social justice movements, stressing the need for honest examination of past actions and systemic inequalities.
• How moving towards pain, rather than avoiding it, can open doors towards healing, transformation and change.
• The role of genuine apology in reconciliation, and the healing of personal and collective wounds.
• Our relationship with the Earth, our disconnection from nature and how reconnecting with the natural world can foster healing, compassion, and a sense of belonging.
• Art, creativity and imagination as catalysts for change, and the importance of artistic expression in social movements.
• The importance of standing together in solidarity, supporting each other's voices and struggles, and the power of collective action in addressing global challenges.
• Personal growth, empowerment, and the journey to find and use one's voice for advocacy and change.
• Finally, we explore a vision for a future characterised by equality, justice, compassion, and ecological harmony.

WEBSITES

• https://www.vday.org/...

Today, I speak with Darcia Narváez, award-winning author and Professor of Psychology Emerita at the University of Notre Dame.

Darcia is the founder of the public and professional educational outreach project The Evolved Nest Initiative, whose nonprofit mission is to share her science research into developing appropriate baselines for lifelong human wellness by meeting the biological needs of infants. This wellbeing baseline is imperative at this time as the United States ranks 41st out of 41 developed countries in public policies that support families.

The former executive editor of the Journal of Moral Education, Darcia was listed among the top 2% of scientists worldwide in 2020, and she currently serves as the president of the award-winning, venerable nonprofit Kindred World, who has been "serving the re-generation since 1996." A board of directors member of Attachment Parenting International, Darcia is also an advisory board member of the Association for Pre- and Perinatal Psychology and Health, APPPAH.

Her pioneering book, Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality: Evolution, Culture and Wisdom, won the 2017 Expanded Reason Award, and received the William James Award from the American Psychological Association in 2015.

In 2022 Darcia was elected a fellow to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the largest international body of professional scientists in the world and publisher of the prestigious journal Science, where she was honored for her distinguished contributions illuminating typical and atypical development in terms of well-being, morality and sustainable wisdom.

Having held interdisciplinary conferences at the University of Notre Dame regarding early experience and human development in 2010, 2012, and 2014, in 2016 Darcia organized a conference on Sustainable Wisdom: Integrating Indigenous Know How for Global Flourishing, which touched upon some of the themes she explores in her recent book, Restoring the Kinship Worldview: Indigenous Voices Introduce 28 Precepts for Rebalancing Life on Planet Earth, which she co-authored with Wahinkpe Topa.

KEY THEMES

• Returning to our species' normal way of raising children is crucial...