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What if the strain so many churches feel isn’t from weak people but from worn-out structures? We sit down with Phil Newton and Rich Shadden, co-authors of Mending the Net: Rethinking Church Leadership, to explore how biblical polity—rooted in a plurality of elders and distinct deacon service—repairs the holes that exhaust pastors, confuse authority, and limit pastoral care. Drawing from Scripture and Baptist history, we unpack why elders/pastors/overseers are one office, how deacons support the ministry of the Word, and why this model strengthens accountability, guards against personality-driven ministry, and scales care to meet real needs across a congregation.

Together we trace the decline of elder plurality in the last century and recover evidence from confessions and association minutes that show this approach was common among earlier Baptists. Phil and Rich make a practical, pastor-tested case: elder leadership within congregationalism is not elder rule; it’s shepherding under Christ and with the church’s oversight. We walk through the distinctions between elders and deacons, the benefits of parity and shared responsibility, and how multiple shepherds bring diverse gifts—preaching, counseling, administration—into a unified team that keeps the Word central.

For pastors and members ready to act, we lay out a patient roadmap: teach the Bible’s pattern across the pulpit, classes, and conversations; invest in faithful men as a pipeline for future elders; and implement changes carefully through bylaws and transparent processes. Whether you’re leading a church with a long single-pastor tradition or planting with plurality from day one, this conversation offers clarity, courage, and concrete steps to build healthier churches for the long haul.

If this episode helped you rethink leadership, subscribe, share it with your team, and leave a review so others can find it. Then tell us: what part of your church’s structure needs mending first?

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A wave of headlines brought Mormonism back into the spotlight, so we pressed pause on our usual format and sat down with Travis Kearns to map the LDS system from the ground up. We start where everything begins for Latter-day Saints—authority—noting how the King James Bible sits alongside the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and, crucially, “continuing revelation” from living prophets. When newer words can overrule older ones, the result is a timeline of truth where the latest General Conference talk carries the most weight. That lens reframes every doctrine that follows.

From there we explore the LDS view of God and creation: Elohim as an exalted man of flesh and bone, Heavenly Mother, and a universe of many gods ruling their own “spheres.” Creation isn’t out of nothing but the organizing of eternal matter. We contrast that with historic Christian teaching on God’s uncreated, eternal nature and creation ex nihilo. Then we walk step by step through LDS salvation—faith, repentance, baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost, sacrament, tithing, temple marriage, temple work, obedience to the Word of Wisdom—and how “grace after all we can do” aims not merely at forgiveness but at exaltation in the celestial kingdom. The famous Lorenzo Snow couplet frames the aspiration: “As man is now, God once was; as God is now, man may be.”

We also open the hood on LDS leadership and life: the President/Prophet, First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, stakes and wards, lay-led worship with short talks, and why priesthood authority is the backbone of belonging. We clarify polygamy’s 1890 end for the mainline church, note the many fundamentalist breakaway groups, and outline LDS last-days expectations—including the very practical habit of home food and water storage. Finally, we offer a gracious way to engage missionaries: point to Jesus as our once-for-all great high priest and sole mediator who makes earthly priesthoods and temples unnecessary, and let the gospel’s finished work do what it always does—save.

If this deep dive helped you think clearly and speak kindly, follow the show, share this episode with a friend, and leave a quick review so more listeners can find it. Have a question or a story from your own LDS conversations? Send it our way and join the dialogue.

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A moment of public forgiveness stunned millions and reminded us of something ancient: grace is not cheap, sentimental, or soft on justice. We sat down to unpack why forgiveness sits at the heart of the Christian gospel, how Scripture frames it, and what it demands of us when wounds feel unhealable. From 1 Corinthians 15 to Matthew 18, we trace the Bible’s logic of mercy—penal substitution, the release of personal debt, and the call to forgive “seventy times seven”—and we talk honestly about how hard that is without the Spirit’s help.

We don’t blur categories. Forgiveness and reconciliation are related but not identical. You can release someone from personal debt even if they never repent, while reconciliation requires truth, repentance, and rebuilt trust. We explore why civil consequences remain, how to live at peace “so far as it depends on you,” and what it looks like to refuse revenge while still pursuing justice. Along the way, we remember historical examples—from church shootings to missionary martyrs—where grace interrupted the cycle of vengeance and made the gospel visible to a watching world.

This conversation moves from headline moments to daily discipleship: marriages strained by betrayal, friendships bent by slander, and church conflicts that test our witness. We offer a practical, Scripture-shaped path to forgive from the heart, pray for offenders, and keep our eyes on Christ who forgave us first. If you’re wrestling with whether forgiveness is naïve or necessary, you’ll find clarity, courage, and hope here.

If this resonates, follow the show, leave a five-star review, and share this episode with someone who needs encouragement to choose grace today.

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What does biblical church leadership look like? In this thought-provoking episode of Courier Conversations, host Jeff Robinson sits down with veteran pastors Phil Newton and Rich Shadden to discuss their new book "Mending the Nets: Rethinking Church Leadership" published by Courier Publishing.

The conversation dives deep into the biblical foundation for elder plurality in Baptist churches—a practice that may surprise many modern Southern Baptists but actually has deep historical roots in Baptist life. Newton, who served as a pastor for over four decades and now mentors pastors through the Pillar Network, explains how the metaphor of "mending nets" applies to church leadership: many churches have good leadership components but need biblical realignment rather than complete reconstruction.

Shadden, senior pastor at Park Avenue Church in Memphis since 2011, offers compelling reasons for why God prescribes plurality in church leadership: it maximizes pastoral care, prevents personality-centered ministry, and provides essential accountability. Together, they tackle common objections and questions: Aren't elders just a Presbyterian concept? If we have deacons, why do we need elders? How do multiple elders work alongside a senior pastor?

Most valuable for church leaders are the practical insights on implementing elder plurality in churches with different traditions. Newton and Shadden emphasize patience, consistent biblical teaching, and intentional development of qualified men—a process that might take years but yields healthier churches and sustainable ministry. Their wisdom comes not from theory but from having successfully navigated these transitions in their own pastoral contexts.

Whether you're a pastor considering this leadership model, a church member curious about biblical church governance, or someone interested in Baptist history and theology, this conversation provides both theological depth and practical guidance. Subscribe to Courier Conversations for more discussions that inform and inspire Baptists and beyond.

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Baptist historian Dr. Tom Nettles joins Courier Conversations to share the story behind his newest book, "Baptist History for Kids" – a beautifully illustrated journey through Baptist heritage designed to help children understand their theological roots.

Drawing from over four decades of experience teaching at institutions like Southwestern Seminary and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Dr. Nettles brings his scholarly expertise to a format accessible for young readers. The book, featuring stunning artwork by his son Robert Nettles, covers fundamental questions: What does "Baptist" mean? How did Baptists begin? What do Baptists believe and do? Who are some significant Baptists throughout history?

During our conversation, Dr. Nettles shares how his earlier groundbreaking works "Baptists and the Bible" and "By His Grace and For His Glory" helped establish that Baptist commitment to biblical inerrancy and Reformed soteriology weren't recent innovations but reflected the denomination's historic foundations. This new book extends that mission to the next generation.

What sets this resource apart is its unflinching portrayal of the cost many early Baptists paid for their convictions. Through stories of figures like Obadiah Holmes, who was publicly whipped for his Baptist beliefs, children learn that theological distinctives like believers' baptism by immersion weren't held cheaply but represented deeply-held biblical convictions worth suffering for.

The book highlights familiar Baptist giants like Spurgeon and Bunyan alongside lesser-known figures such as George Lyle, a freed slave who became an effective missionary, and John Jasper, whose preaching gifts were so extraordinary that his master freed him to preach more widely. Dr. Nettles also discusses South Carolina's central role in Baptist history, from establishing the first Baptist association in the South to providing key leadership in forming the Southern Baptist Convention.

Whether you're a parent wanting to nurture your child's denominational identity or someone curious about Baptist roots, this conversation illuminates why understanding our theological heritage matters in an increasingly anti-denominational age. As Dr. Nettles reminds us, Baptist history represents not just cultural tradition but theological conviction worth preserving and passing down.

Ready to help your children discover their Baptist heritage? Find "Baptist History for Kids" at courierpublishing.com or on Amazon today.

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What does it mean to be Baptist in today's polarized religious landscape? Can strong theological convictions coexist with genuine kindness toward those who disagree? Nate Akin believes they not only can but must go together.

In this thought-provoking conversation, Nate unpacks the framework of his book "Convictional, Confessional, Cheerful Baptists," revealing how our theological commitments should shape both what we believe and how we engage with others. As executive director of the Pillar Network and founder of Baptist 21, Nate brings unique insights into denominational cooperation and Baptist identity.

The discussion explores how the very doctrines of grace many Baptists cherish should make them the most gracious people in theological discussions. "We should mean what we say (convictional), say what we mean (confessional), and say what we mean without being mean (cheerful)," Nate explains, cutting to the heart of his message.

Particularly compelling is Nate's candid admission that his book partly stems from battling his own tendencies toward theological arrogance. If salvation truly comes by unmerited grace, shouldn't that produce humility rather than haughtiness in our doctrinal positions?

Beyond personal application, the conversation addresses why denominational distinctives matter in an age that often dismisses them as irrelevant. Nate makes a compelling case that understanding Baptist identity isn't just about tradition but about how we understand the church's nature and mission in the world.

Whether you're a lifelong Baptist wondering about your denominational roots or someone curious about how theological conviction and Christian charity can work together, this episode offers refreshing insights for navigating faith in a divided world.

Find Nate's book "Convictional, Confessional, Cheerful Baptists" at courierpublishing.com or on Amazon.

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What makes someone truly Baptist? Is it simply family tradition, or are there deeper theological convictions at play? In this thought-provoking episode, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kearns dive into the heart of Baptist identity, challenging the common notion that most people identify as Baptist merely because "that's how I was raised."

The conversation explores the foundational Baptist distinctive of believers' baptism by immersion and why this practice matters theologically. Robinson and Kearns skillfully dismantle arguments for infant baptism, examining how Baptist understanding of baptism connects to regenerate church membership and a biblical view of covenant signs. Their biblical analysis of Romans 2:25-29 reveals how physical circumcision corresponds to spiritual heart change rather than physical baptism, contradicting common Reformed arguments.

Beyond baptism, the hosts trace Baptist origins to English Puritan separatism in the 17th century, positioning Baptist emergence as a continuation of the Reformation into matters of ecclesiology. They highlight South Carolina's significant historical importance in Baptist life and discuss how Baptist identity encompasses four key principles: orthodoxy, evangelicalism, integrated ecclesiology, and confessionalism.

The discussion takes on added relevance in light of recent high-profile departures from Baptist life to Anglican or Catholic traditions, with the hosts cautioning against reading Scripture through the lens of church history rather than the other way around. Their passionate defense of Baptist distinctives demonstrates why these theological positions remain compelling in an age that often dismisses denominational differences.

Tune in to our upcoming series on denominations, where we'll explore why denominational identity matters in today's anti-authority culture and explain the unique structure of the Southern Baptist Convention. Subscribe, leave a review, and join the conversation about what it means to embrace Baptist identity with biblical conviction rather than mere tradition.

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What happens when religious faith directly impacts political governance? In our latest deep dive, we examine the surprising rise of Zoran Mamdani, the 33-year-old Democrat who openly identifies as both socialist and communist while now standing as the nominee for mayor of America's financial capital.

Our co-host Travis Kearns brings his extensive expertise in world religions to unpack the profound implications of Mamdani's Twelver Shiite Muslim background—the same branch that governs Iran. We explore how this specific Islamic worldview might shape governance approaches in New York City, from economic policies to social structures. Quoting directly from Karl Marx's communist principles and advocating for government-controlled businesses, Mamdani represents a fascinating case study in how personal faith influences public policy.

The conversation moves beyond simple political analysis to examine what Christians living under different governmental systems should consider. Drawing from Romans 13 and the writings of Francis Schaeffer, we discuss the biblical framework for engaging with authorities while maintaining spiritual integrity. Whether you're interested in politics, religious studies, or the intersection of worldviews, this episode offers thoughtful insights into one of America's most significant mayoral races and its potential ripple effects across the nation. Join us for this timely exploration of faith, governance, and how the two inevitably shape each other in profound ways.

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