“I've been very present to the fact that there have been these huge, huge joys. But every time I meet a huge joy, it just drops me deeper into the grief, which is part of what I always say about grief.

The more you open yourself to the joy, the more you open yourself to the grief and vice versa. So that kind of feels like where my journey has been this summer.”

~ Naila Francis

In this episode, inspired by our conversation with grief activist, author and podcast host Lisa Keefauver, we reflect on where our journeys have taken us these last few months, including the grief we’re both living with. As we invite you into these personal experiences, we share the ways grief continues to surprise and teach us — and how challenging it can be to lean into those lessons that come ‘round again and again. Given all the wisdom Lisa shared with us from her new book, “Grief is A Sneaky Bitch” (also the title of her podcast) in the previous episode, we also explore some of the threads that most resonated with us, especially the value of seeking support, which can be tricky to do when you’re the one often giving it. We’re so grateful for Lisa’s work challenging conventional narratives around grief. And we invite you to consider the narratives you hold around loss, how they might be impacting you and how you care for yourself and others in times of grief.

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